The Crown: The Official Podcast

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Clip – Charles tellsfamily he has proposed.

His Royal Highness, The Prince of Wales…..

…That it was the happiest moment of her life. 

Series intro

Welcome to the Crown: The Official Podcast. I'm Edith Bowman and this show will follow the fourth season of the Netflix original series The Crown episode by episode, taking you behind the scenes, speaking with many of the talented people involved, and diving deep into the stories. 

Episode intro

Today we're talking about Episode Three called ‘Fairytale’.

It’s 1981 and Prince Charles has proposed to Lady Diana Spencer. The Queen decides to move the 19-year-old bride into Buckingham Palace to prepare her for life as a royal, while Charles jets off on an overseas tour. In his absence, Diana discovers the true nature of Charles’s ‘friendship’ with Camilla and as the wedding fast approaches, what began as a fairy tale turns into a nightmare. 

We will cover specific events and scenes that feature in this episode, so if you haven’t watched episode three yet, I suggest you do it now.  Or very soon.

Edith v/o

Coming up we’ll hear from the costume design team Sid Roberts and Amy Roberts. 

Teaser Clip – Amy Roberts

I just shut my eyes and I thought ‘okay, imagine the wedding dress. What does anybody remember about that dress?’

Edith v/o

We will also hear from the incredible young actor who plays Princess Diana, Emma Corrin. 

Teaser Clip – Emma Corrin

Emma: And they took all of the furniture out and then just blasted Cher and I could just dance, and it was so much fun!

Edith: Wow! 

Edith v/o

But first I spoke with director Ben Caron. 

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E: Can we talk about Diana please?

B: We can.

E: How did you feel going into this season knowing that this was…a focus of the season. It's not the entire focus, but it's very much kind of a big storyline of the season. How did you feel about going in there and the story of her that you were going to tell?

B: Terrified? Arguably one of the most famous women in the world and everyone has a different opinion about who their Diana is. So…You feel like you were exposed to that. So it began with finding the right actor to play Diana and…

E:…she's perfect. 

B: She is, absolutely. Perfect. I think she's perfect. Emma Corrin, that is.

B: And it wasn’t just that she looked like her because in a way we've tried very hard not to cast people who are just lookalikes. She has the amazing ability to have strength of character and at the same time, huge amount of vulnerability.

E: There's so much, I want to talk to you about this particular episode Fairytale as well, because I think that there are just wonderful moments where you really dive into trying to explore how alone she is first and foremost. That scene, where she comes into the room and she gets all wrong…Oh, wow…

B: Yeah. That's like the umbilical cord has been cut, that she was just sort of going down that staircase And she's been handed over to The Firm who take her to the palace. And then she goes to meet the family and she walks in and she gets it all wrong. She gets all the etiquette wrong, the Royal etiquette wrong. And it's. Painful. It's so painful.

E: They’re so horrible to her.

B: It was so painful to film and it was painful to watch and it was painful for everyone there in the room to make that and perform that. Now I've been in situations where that's just part of, ‘Hey, welcome to our family. This is what we're like. And this is, this is sort of part of what we do to each other. We rib each other and get used to it, cause we like to do this and it's fun.’

So they, they don't see any menace to that at all, it's just, you're just gonna have to…

E: They do the same with Thatcher. 

B: They do the same with Thatcher and it's quite ghastly and it feels really mean, and it probably is really mean. And you feel for Diana, she is the, I mean, the sacrificial lamb in the centre of this family who are sort of openly mocking her, pulling her leg in terms of getting it wrong. And it is very, very painful. 

Sorry, your majesty… 

Cue: …being rushed through the streets of Manilla…

E: When you are recreating specific things that we've seen, you know, that have been on TV.

So that famous interview that they did post engagement, in that…

B: Whatever in love means…yeah.

E: Even though I've seen that, it felt like I was watching it for the first time. 

B: That's good. 

E: But how do you approach that and having a kind of… a creative spin on something that is… has been so watched

B: They’re really hard, those scenes, for all of us. For the actors, for the directors, for probably the writer, because for exactly that reason, everyone's got their version of that scene. And. In that moment, it was, it was about taking the camera's eye, the global press attention and almost going inside the camera lens and feeling like we were part of history watching this moment.

…What can you tell us about the wedding

Cue: ...whatever in love means

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B: You could almost call the film ‘whatever in love means’. I mean, there's, you know, if it wasn't Fairytale you could say whatever love means. And I think just what?! whatever in love means?! I mean, in that moment, he says that like, he's..sort of caught off guard. They're both kind of caught off guard and he sort of just comes out and they're like, what, what do you mean? Hang on.What?! And that's such a massive moment then you're just left for that silence afterwards when they walk along that corridor. And then, and he's like ‘okay I’ll see at the airport tomorrow.’ Yep. Okay. 

E: There’s no romance there at all.

B: But it’s really weird because I sort of think Charles is a bit of a romantic. But he, in that moment there, he, I mean, I guess you're asking Royals to express emotions in front of millions and millions of people, you know? I mean, they probably the furthest that goes, that goes stand on the balcony and have a kiss, and everyone’s like ‘wwaahheyy’ but like to declare your love In that moment. ‘I don't want it. I'm not gonna do that.’

E: Kiss in 5, 4, 3…

B:  I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to say I love her in front of someone. Cause that was, we don't do that. We don't do that. So, you know, maybe there's a bit of that going on, but I mean, um, there's also probably a bit of like, I hardly know her, how could I? I mean, I hardly know her. We have spent a few, we've gone on a few dates.

E: The way that Peter has written Charles has really allowed us to see the complexities of that character. And what The Crown does really well is show us the origins of these complexities. Here we’ve got someone who wasn’t allowed to be with the person he loves, and I think Josh’s performance really shows through this pain and this internal turmoil…

B: It's really painful. It's interesting you talk about the origins. Cause when I, when the origins of the crown and that, that idea of love, true love and not being able to be with the person that you love. And I think back to Margaret, I think back to Peter Townsend. And I think about that, that pain and that struggle, which stretches all the way into when I see Helena. And I see her looking at these Charles and Diana in St Pauls at the rehearsal. And you see her looking at that moment. And then later on, we come to that Jacobean scene where she sort of says they can't get married. And you, you feel that writing all the way back to season one, two. It’s extraordinary, extraordinary how, these stories can keep repeating themselves and you know, much like our own families. The idea is that we are repeating the patterns of maybe, fathers and mothers and grandfathers before that.

And I think that's what makes it so relatable when you see these stories play out. And I think Josh has done such a remarkable job of showing us the true complexity of what it's like to be in that position and the question of duty. It’s a big theme running through fairytale is duty. And we hear that sort of that horn that comes in throughout the episode in many ways, that’s symbolic of that duty, that he is a reminder of what he is being asked to do.

Edith v/o

In this episode Diana’s lonely new life at the palace takes its toll on her mental health, as it becomes clear that she is suffering from an eating disorder called bulimia. I asked Ben how he approached portraying this aspect of Diana’s life with authenticity and care on screen. 

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B: I…I had first-hand experience growing up of a family member had Bulimia and at very young age. I just didn't know. What or how to deal with that. I was, I was young. I was naive. I was uneducated around what bulimia is. And I, and at the time I think, I just didn't understand it. And so doing this right was really important. So, we spoke to a lot of people about where that comes from, and it's, it's not just the vomiting. Sometimes bulimia is just shown to be that and it's really not. That's just the very, very end of this process, but why does it happen? And what's going through emotionally, why someone would want to do that. And I guess, you know, for anyone that's in that scenario, their feeling of, of lack of control, wherever they are.  And that for Diana in that palace alone, that one of the things that she could try and get back for herself, that she could own, that she could have control of was eating and the feeling that one gets from eating is associated with sort of a high, a sugar rush, a high and 

E: Joy.

B: A joy and then the immediate after effect of then wanting to get rid of that. And actually, that also is, is a continuation of, weirdly, that high from, from expunging that, and then sort of staying in that and then, and then you get the lows afterwards. So it was really important to, to show that process, um, truthfully, but also to find the right moment in the film where it felt that that could sort of happen. And the second time is after the lunch with Camilla and that's a really interesting scene because the food part of that was never really written in the scene. And I remember talking to Peter about how Diana has a really complicated relationship with food and Camilla doesn't have a complicated relationship with food. And so that idea, I just thought that idea of her going in there and sitting in a restaurant that serves starters and desserts must have been hell. And so you, we start the scene and it's two women trying to sort of understand and who the other one is. Where their territory is, which one's a threat, which one's not a threat. And then there's a sort of turn in the scene where we, or Diana realizes that the closeness of Camilla to Charles. 

…so you see yourself living more in London than the country?

Cue: ...I’m all for sharing. 

E: It's so tragic to watch all these things that she discovers leading up to that wedding day. And I think that you are all so brilliant and the fact that you cover the wedding in the way that you've covered it.

B: Because everyone's so familiar with the wedding itself, what people aren't familiar and why the crown is so good at that is what was happening behind closed doors. What was it like on the day before the wedding? What was it like on the morning of the wedding? 

And then we have that amazing voice from the Archbishop. Put that against the imagery of Charles there ready, dressed to step forward and do his duty. And then finally, we see Diana in this, this dress, this dress that's sort of suffocating her . It's so big, it feels as if its suffocating her inside there. And then this walk away which feels really ominous in a way...

We’ll hear from the phenomenal Emma Corrin about becoming Princess Diana on the show a little bit later but first, I paid a virtual visit to the Crown’s costume department to ask costume designer Amy Roberts with assistant Costume Designer and head buyer Sid Roberts about Diana’s iconic style journey. 

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A: Almost more than any other character, Diana is on this journey, which It's going to carry on in the next season, but you really go from that pretty, shy girl, just wearing ordinary, bobbly jumpers, creased skirts, having a good time. And then she meets Charles and then she's taken to the palace and she gets got at, I think. 

S: I think you always go in the term ‘palace-ised’. She gets ‘palace-ised’. Which I think is a good one. Because there is this like slight, Earls Court Sloane ranger, Liberty print, young girl.

A: And then gradually, gradually, when that relationship’s starting to go toxic, the enormity of what she's got herself into that Royal world, which is so tough. I think she slowly started very slowly to flex her muscles and put on some Armor. 

E: One piece of clothing in particular that I wanted to ask about. It’s the – I’m going to describe it as the Llama jumper. It’s the bright pink, sort of Peruvian pattern jumper with llamas on it and coloured stripes which we see in, I think it’s episode 2 as she leaves balmoral. And I have got to say it is strikingly similar to the one that I remember her being photographed in, the real Diana at the time. I mean, there’s a lot in this whole season that took my breath away, but it was like: that’s the jumper! 

S: and actually, that's the one that we had made. We got a pattern of that, selected all the colours really specifically to make it.  Whereas the sheep jumper is actually, was loaned to us by the women who had originally made it, they'd got in touch with us and said, do you want this, the jumper that she actually wore?

E: Wow. 

S: So I think the one she actually wore was in the V+A, but they gave us another one from the time. So yeah, the Peruvian jumper actually wasn't the original, but we had it made. 

A: when you see her in it. I know the reference for that is always when she's with Charles, probably in Scotland, I think. But we found a photo when she was just kicking around London, you know, Chelsea or something, and she's wearing that jumper. It was just a jumper she had in a cupboard. And so we were able to use it in different situations. 

E: she's so famous and photographed, and her outfits are so iconic, not, not all of them, but so many of them. Is it a fine line between when you're trying to replicate something, but give it, you know, a spin or a different fabric or, you know, it's got to fit the actor sort of thing. 

A: The big elephant in the room was always going to be the, the wedding dress. I think for me, I just shut my eyes and I thought, okay, imagine the wedding dress what does anybody remember about that dress? So, it's the colour, the volume, big sleeves, and a huge, great train. So, I think let's get that across and that hopefully will do it. Our job is to make a big nod towards it. 

S: What we did at the very beginning is read the script. And then I think we mapped out the moments where it did feel appropriate to do more of a replication. If you go there for those moments, it also means that in the other quieter moments or the private moments, it can allow you to have slightly more imagination and hopefully bring people there with you because you've built a trust in going, this is accurate and this is what so, so it allows for, a different space for us in other places. 

E: I love how even, you know, that first time that they meet where she's in character from a Midsummer night's dream and how you have chosen to, to dress her for that. I think that's just, it's so beautiful. And it's such a…a kind of almost wonderful interpretation of where she is as a very young girl.

A: That was like, most of these visuals was given to us by Peter Morgan's writing. I mean, that was all on the page of this strange fairy Midsummer night's dream creature. And so what a gift. First meeting with Diana is that, and that final look of her, that very final, shocking scene. Look at that journey. 

S: Yeah. We spoke about it and we, in terms of Diana being the one with the clearest kind of sartorial trajectory, like there's such a difference, everybody else is more settled. So there isn't that kind of arc that 10 year where you really see the difference between somebody growing up in the public eye, they grow up, their tastes changes.

E: And you really see a lot of that in episode three Fairytale. We see her from being at home with her flat mates to the engagement and moving into the palace and also that scene with, with Camilla, where they go for lunch. Can you talk a little bit about that particular scene and, and the decisions that were made on how these two characters would dress and what it almost tells us about them and the dynamic and the relationship? 

A: In the last season we'd seen Camilla as slightly…Super confident but not grown up yet. So this was a scene where we felt she was absolutely top dog in this situation, in this restaurant, she'd chosen it, she liked the food and she was going to wield this power. So she had a great 80’s to suit, not wildly fabulous, but she’s not the best dresser in the world, but innately, you know, the strong shoulders. And so against that, we had Diana looking, I think, and hope, really awkward. So the suit looks ever slightly too big. 

E: Yeah. 

A: To make her look sort of vulnerable and shy. And I mean, what a horrible position to be in. So that was the aim. 

E: Almost like she's playing dress up in a way isn’t it? 

A: Totally I'm going to put this grown up, bit middle aged suit on and this is not working. And I'm just feeling wretched and awful and actually worse and worse by the minute. 

Edith v/o

And finally, it’s time to hear from the breakout star of season 4 of The Crown – Emma Corrin. I was so excited to sit down with her towards the end of filming, in her first interview about the show. I began by asking about the casting process. 

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Emma: Yeah, it was absolutely bizarre. My agents, one of the coolest most, like very lowkey doesn't stress out people. And I got this call from her, and she sounded so weird on the phone. ‘I got this, I got this call from Nina Gold’s office. And they've got like five girls who they're reading for, for Camilla and they’re chemistry testing them with Josh O'Connor and they want to bring someone in to read for Diana. And they've asked if you're available?’ They just need someone to read her lines. But you know, you're going to be in the room with all the producers and the directors and casting directors and when I first met my agent, we were talking about dream jobs and I'd loved season one and two of the crown And I was just like, ‘yeah, well, Diana, it would be like the dream. ‘

E: You said that then?

Emma: Yeah. 

E: Oh my God.

Emma: In our very first meeting, when I hadn't even signed with her, 2018 Christmas of 2018. Yeah. And so this call was mad. And then she said, well, you know, it's kind of perfect because it's a complete no pressure situation.

E: Absolutely Yeah. 

Emma: We've talked about how we think you would be maybe be right for this role. So why don't you go in and treat it like an audition, but also it's not because there's no pressure on you. 

E: So do you prepped for it? 

Emma: I prepped for it. Yeah.

E:  And literally blew their socks off. 

Emma: I don’t know…You know what? It was so much fun. And of course I hadn't, I mean, I'd just graduated uni. I hadn't done a job when I went in and did that. And then halfway through the director said, Oh, do you want to work on the scene a bit for Diana? And I was like, Oh, okay.

I remember fighting the whole thing baffling. Cause I didn't know what. I didn't know, particularly that that was abnormal, but I felt that something had shifted in the room and I called my agent and I  was like ‘Mia, I think, I think they might have liked me. I don't know. I think something happened.’ She said, ‘Emma, you can't do this. Like, there's no point getting your hopes up, things like that. They are so far from casting this part right now. And just like, you know, chalk it up to very good experience and just leave it.’ 

E: Good advice. 

Emma: Very good advice. And I think until the day I was literally offered the part. She continued to be my, I would get excited and hopeful cause it was about eight months or so from that point to getting the part. 

E: Back when you watched that first series and you were like, I want to play, why did you want to play Diana? Why did you, why was it in your head? 

Emma: So…this is going to sound so weird. So, my Mum, when she was younger, looked exceptionally like Diana and when Diana passed away the same day, my mum got on the train and people fainted because they thought that it was her,

E: Oh my God. 

Emma: It was the thing at school that people said that my mum was actually Diana. And that it was this thing that followed me throughout my life weirdly. Not in any particular significant way, but it felt like there was something of a…I don't know, like a presence, just a presence. That's exactly the right word. I was gonna say spirit, but it's not as good as it's not as big as that. It was like a presence. And then obviously I loved The Crown and you know, if they kept making the series, I was like, I they're going to get to that point. And yeah, I think he had maybe been someone in my family who'd mentioned it as a joke. Like, imagine if that happened

E: Haha who’s laughing now?!

Emma: Who’s laughing now, exactly. 

E:  So you get the call, you've got the job. What was your prep then from pre the camera's rolling of, you know, working with this fantastic different departments that help

Emma: Oh, fantastic team.

E: So, you know, whether that's costume, you know, who are just the best and also the dialect coaches and all that sort of thing and movement as well because there’s one scene – you know, the engagement press conference -  you feel yourself almost watching it mimicking you sort of thing, because that's what she did. That was the power that she had of pulling you in and kind of being with her. You just nail it, you nail it. 

Emma: Thank you. It was a lot of, it was a lot of work and amaze- as you say, incredible people to be working with. I mean, Oh my gosh. I just feel like I've learned so much because yeah, with Diana it's, so in voice and body language, are you almost don't need to say anything.

You could do a lot. And I think actually I do do a lot with just…

E: An over the shoulder…

Emma: yeah, Over the shoulder and the head tilt, which is a classic her thing.

E: In terms of research. Did you dive deep or did you kind of hold back because it's just, it's a rabbit hole.

Emma: It’s such a rabbit hole and especially with Diana, because there are so many. You could read, you could read endlessly about her life. I'm basically a big nerd. And I got very excited by the fact that there's a research team and what a fantastic job. They gave me this like huge, A4 lever arch file binder. So I read that and I read one or two bios. Tell you what has been on Netflix: ‘Diana in her own words’ was my absolute, my Bible. It’s basically what I used completely. So I've watched and that time takes the most, the biggest moments from her life. Yeah. Apart from that, I then got a bit saturated, you know? 

E: Yeah. 

Emma: You can only read up to, to such a point and it kind of stopped being that useful. 

E:  We were joking to Josh about it, about the fact that, you know, his Mum texted him after an episode and goes, okay, this really happened?

Emma:  Exactly

E: This is, you know, this is, this is Peter's interpretation of... 

Emma: That's the thing. You have to take what you can from the research. But also there's so much more that you discover actually just doing it. 

Clip – Airport goodbye

…I’m sorry this tour hasn’t come at a good time…

Cue: ….She’s the best company…

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E: What about with you and Josh in terms of finding that chemistry? Because it’s such a specific chemistry.

Emma:  It's such a specific chemistry. Yeah. It's kind of it's there but it's not, it's also not there at all. It's a very interesting thing. And I actually don't know if you can really put it into words cause it's so hardly romantic. It's like a tragic chemistry. 

E: Yes. It's real Shakespearean in a way, isn't it? 

Emma: Yeah. That's such a good way of putting it. 

E: But also I think because we know, we know the outcome. 

Emma: Yeah. 

E: So it's kind of the tragedy’s there before we even sit back and enjoy these wonderful performances.

Emma:  And that was quite hard for me and Josh to do is, something we've, we made sure we were very aware of, especially in the early days of not playing the ending.

E: It's even in Peter’s stage notes. You know, she's celebrating her engagement with her flatmates and in the stage notes that says ‘crashed out all in one bed together exhausted, but still giddy, delirious, ecstatic. It's a complete fairytale. And it's worth making a note of this moment because this is the happiest we’ll ever see her’...Oh it makes me want to cry just thinking about it.

Emma: I know. That was an incredible thing to read. I remember, I completely know. I remember reading that and I've never, I don't think I'll ever forget it when I read that. Because that I think set the tone for me of what the series is going to be about. Of capturing her innocence of her hope of her honest conviction that she would be saved because her childhood had been so awful in many ways that she would be saved by this. And her happiness and then the complete decline into sadness. Yeah, crazy.

E: Yeah. That moment got me for big and strong

Emma: But everything the flat with the flatmates was so wonderful because it set up everything that she lost and she was going to lose in a sense.

Clip – Farewell to the Flatmates

Straight in at the deep end….

Cue: …being the fucking Queen...laughter

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E:  There's some really lovely ways that her fun personality are shown through as well. And her love of performing as well. 

Emma: She was such a performer, she loved it.

E:  There was a thing as well, where someone asked her what she would have been. I think I read somewhere, and she said she would have been a dancer.

Emma:  She loved ballet. Yeah. I think she loved ballet. And tap, I think all kinds of dance.

E: Do you dance? Did you dance? Before?

Emma: This is the funny thing, because this was never the character description. And also, ask any of my friends. It is a running joke that I cannot dance. I once got told by a teacher at school that I dance like a spider, essentially, because I'm quite limby and I'm very uncoordinated. So increasingly I sort of realized that reading the scripts and then through conversations with directors and other people that dance would be a big part of Diana’s life. And I kind of thought guys do know that I'm not a trained dancer at all, but it was, it’s actually been so much fun. So I started doing yeah, Jazz tap and ballet classes. 

E: Amazing, Did you like it? 

Emma: Loved it. Absolutely loved it. It was fun. But the other fun dance-y bit which I loved was with Ben Caron. And he was like okay, so I want this moment where, in ep three, she's having a ballet lesson, that's something she does. It's very structured. It's very, you know, takes it very seriously, but also kind of hates it in the same vein as those classes she's doing with her scary grandmother. And all she wants to do is break out of it, it's very regimented. And, um, he was like, I want to do this scene where we have a ballet class. And then she comes in for another lesson and the teacher's not there. And she just like, let's go in this moment of just expression and she breaks free and she just has this kind of Billy Elliot moment, almost of dance.

And I remember I just jumped in and I said, I can I, can I do it? As in, Can I, is that okay if I, if we don't choreograph anything, if I just put on music and just dance. And I think anyone but Ben would have been like, ‘maybe not’, but Ben being Ben was like, ‘yeah, love it.’ So then they sent me some song recommendations, but I really wanted to dance to Cher, Do you believe. There's an amazing theatre group called DV8 and part of the, one of their shows. There's a guy who does an amazing dance to the Cher ‘Do you believe’. So, yeah, I just said it wasn't period. So they can actually, they can never use it in the series but they said, yeah, so there was just like a huge stately room, but they Rembrandts in the wall outside, it was mad. And they took all the furniture out and then just blasted Cher and I could just dance and it was so much fun. It was so much fun. 

E: how was the transformation for you? Because, I mean, I say transformation there's you have this, this kind of natural beauty that, that resonates obviously with her, but in terms of turning into the character, did you enjoy that side of it, of kind of, you know, with the costumes and the wigs and all that kind of thing?

Emma: I’m so fond of the wigs 

E: Everyone says, even Tobias was like, he wants to take his eyebrows with him when… his weird bleached eyebrows, do you enjoy that side of it? 

Emma: I love that side of it.

E: Does it help as well? 

Emma: Yeah massively. And also the costumes combined with finding the voice and the physicality just means that it is literally almost like taking off my Emma thing, self and putting on someone else.

E: Yeah. And it's that thing that Sid and Amy do brilliantly where they… They don't replicate things. And in terms of the kind of costumes there's…yes there, I mean the jumper, the bright, I mean, I remember…

Emma: The pink one with the Llamas?

E: Yeah. It's like, that's the real jumper!

Emma: I know, but that, as you say, it's very clever because they don't replicate because as with everything with this series, that's not the point. The point is to find the feeling, I suppose. 

E: Yeah. And remind people. 

Emma: Exactly.

E: like the proposal. Press conference.

Emma: And the wedding dress. 

E: How did you feel? 

Emma: I mean, honestly, it was just surreal. So the wedding dress moment, it was so, so bizarre. Obviously, no one had seen it on and it took about 10 people to get me into this dress. And then the crew had set up at the end of that corridor of rooms. If that makes sense-

E: Hadn’t seen you

Emma: Hadn't seen me. And then these two Oak doors opened, and I was there in the dress and everyone went quiet. It was like the biggest silence I have ever heard. And no one spoke for the entire time we shot it. Everyone whispered, it was bizarre. Really, really haunting.

And I felt it then, but I felt this massive presence, at that moment. It felt, it felt really strange. It was like, I was kind of seeing it all from not in my body. It was really weird. And I felt this presence in the room. I didn't know what it was, but I felt it. And I remember thinking that I was going to mention it to someone, but I was like, Emma that sounds so stupid! Like, don’t even. And I remember a week or so later, someone was asking me and I think some of the AD’s and Debbie who does my hair makeup about that day.  And someone said, Oh yeah, and there was just his presence in the room. And I thought, Oh my God. Well, it wasn't just me. I was like, did you, did you think that? And they were like, yeah, it was the most haunting thing. 

E: Wow. 

Emma: Yeah. It was mental. 

E: Because that's another clever thing, the way that they've chosen to do it is that we don't see the wedding.

Emma:  No, which I think is so good. A, because you can YouTube it. I haven't actually done that, but I think he can, no, I haven't actually done that. I'm glad they didn't put it in.

E: Yeah, I think so. 

Emma: Because it's also not the interesting thing. 

E: No, it's all around it. 

Emma: It’s all around it, yeah. Yeah. I remember one of the things that stuck with me from that documentary is that she says the night before she was ‘as sick as a parrot, um, couldn't sleep.’

Yeah. She binged the night before and then woke up in the morning and she had this, she said she had this deathly calm. And it was a very, very interesting thing to play with almost showing absolutely nothing, which is very hard actually to do, but yeah.

E: Did you find it an emotional experience playing this role? 

Emma: Incredibly.

E:  I bet. 

Emma: Yeah, it's quite, um, unsettling, psychologically. She's incredibly complex and moves quite drastically from high to low to self-confidence to none at all. And when you're working, when you're in those shoes for 12, 10, 12 hours a day for like eight months, it's a lot.

And you started to think is, is why is that I'm feeling like unstable today because of that or because of what's happening? What do I think and feel? Yeah, it's a lot. But, I mean, if I'm feeling that I didn't even imagine what, what she was, what she was going through. 

E: Yeah. It might sound like a strange question, but are you, I think, you know, people by the time this interview goes out, the sh, the show will be out. People will be watching. They'll, there'll be, they'll be-

Emma: ah. Mental

E: -And I know, and it's lovely because you've been seen, you've seen, you've not been allowed to talk about it so much.

Emma: I’m so excited to talk about it! 

E: But when people see this, it is it's going to blow their minds. Both in terms of, of how you've brought her to life basically and then how you've portrayed her. And that in itself is going to bring a lot of attention to you personally. 

Emma: Yeah. 

E: And whether that's something you're prepared for in terms of, we've seen, you know, The paps can't help themselves, watch things on set, you know,

Emma: Oh my gosh yeah it’s insane

E: and you've had a taste of that already of, of weirdly that kind of pap short of walking down the street, you know, and stuff. 

Emma: I remember when I first - that day that Ben offered me the part - then we went back to my trailer. And he was like, ‘how'd you feel? This is mad. This is so cool. I'm so glad I'm here for this moment’. And then he was like, I was leaving. He said, ‘I want you to remember one thing that any time you feel overwhelmed by this and the public, use it.’

a lot of my research was based in trying to figure out what that would mean for someone, I guess, in a way it's given me a bit of preparation. 

Here is the stuff of which fairytales are made...

...our faith sees the wedding day, not as the place of arrival, but the place where the adventure really begins.

I'm Edith Bowman and my special thanks to our guests on this episode, Ben Caron, Amy Roberts, Sid Roberts and Emma Corrin.

The Crown: The Official Podcast is produced by Netflix and Somethin’ Else, in association with Left Bank pictures. 

Join us next time when we go behind the scenes of episode four of season four, called ‘Favourites’.

As Thatcher’s favourite son Mark goes missing, the Queen explores whether she too has a favourite child. But will spending time with each of her children give her clarity, or reveal her own failings as a parent?

Throw to ep 404

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